I have lost count of how many times I have read or heard this response and I think it is finally time to address it on my blog. I have talked about infertility before, but I want to specifically address the same comment I've seen people make in response to those who have either taken offense at something someone has said or who get angry about those who promote Family Preservation.
"You just don't know what it's like to have fertility problems and pregnancy loss!"
The concept behind that, I guess, is that if people who believe in adoption as a last resort must only do so because they can birth children on their own and don't need adoption as a means of parenting. If we had fertility problems, we'd understand and have totally different views. When someone makes a comment another person takes offense to, it's not because we've lived adoption for decades and have a reason to be offended because you've said or written something marginalizing, it must be because we've never had fertility problems or experienced miscarriage.
The "you don't know what it's like" statement also to me sounds a whole lot like someone saying that they have a license to be offensive or to behave towards adoption in a way that is not ethical because of their own personal pain. Children should not be spoken about as though they are a supply for people who want them. Can no one imagine how Adult Adoptees who were once adopted children might feel when spoken about as a "supply" or an ailment to someone else's pain?
What people do not understand is that adoptees experience life just like everyone else. There is this idea out there that adoption is the only event in our lives and then the rest is just smooth and perfect sailing from there.
Wrong.
Adoptees not only experience adopted lives, they experience the life everyone else does too. We grow up and have the same falls, bumps, and scrapes. Being adopted does not make someone impervious to fertility problems and pregnancy loss. There are Adult Adoptees who have themselves experienced infertility and pregnancy loss. There are also Adult Adoptees who have adopted. Being adopted also does not make you impervious to experiencing an unplanned pregnancy as a young person and be faced with tough decisions. There are Adult Adoptees who were pregnant as teens who parented their children as single mothers as well as Adult Adoptees who surrendering to adoption or had abortions as well. We live on the same planet that everyone else does, we "get" how crappy life can be. We are not just "adopted," we are mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers, neighbors, single parents, married parents, both fertile and infertile, and we come from all walks of life.
We do "get" it.
But no one but an adopted person has walked in an adopted person's shoes. If you offend an adoptee, instead of assuming something is wrong with them, why not just ask them why they are offended. It's a good rule of thumb when dealing with any sensitive issue or when talking about an issue that someone lives every day of their life and you don't. I'm writing from the adoptee perspective about it because I'm adopted and my blog is geared towards anyone impacted by adoption, especially other adoptees. Many of us have lived adoption for decades. It's an attribute just like race, gender, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, so on and so forth. A good rule of thumb is, if you wouldn't say it about race/gender/religion etc. you shouldn't say it about adoption or an adoptee either.
Bottom line? If I had fertility problems and had experienced miscarriage would I then stop advocating for the rights of children to stay with their original families and be adopted in an ethical manner out of empathy for the couples who badly want to become parents? No. I have had fertility problems and have lost a pregnancy and I still think that adoption should be about the rights and welfare of children; period.
I wish that every adoptive parent and adoption proponent, and in fact the general public would read your entire blog. The world would be a better place.
ReplyDeleteHi Amanda :) If you don't mind, I'm linking to your post on my blog <3
ReplyDeleteThanks SustainableFamilies :-)
ReplyDeleteOf course I don't mind Christina :-)
What really miffs me about the "You just don't understand(infertility)" people is that they expect that their pain is important enough to CAUSE (and in most cases, ignore) the pain that adoption causes both the first family and the adopted person. THAT pain is inconsequential as long as they get "their" dreams fulfilled ~ ethics mean NOTHING. Egoism at its best...
ReplyDeleteThe fertility issue affects adoptees as well, and many adopted women have issues with motherhood.
ReplyDeletehttp://peachneitherherenorthere.blogspot.com/2008/02/on-infertility.html
I am an Adult Adoptee.
ReplyDeleteMy first pregnancy, when I 21, ended in a miscarriage. I was unmarried and unemployed (on worker's comp.) Before I lost the baby I NEVER thought of abortion or giving my baby up for adoption even though this was a "crisis pregnancy".
My second pregnancy, when I was 23, I was still unemployed (still on worker's comp.) and unmarried. This would have been considered another "crisis pregnancy". I NEVER thought of abortion or adoption. I struggled and raised my child who now a junior in high school.
My third pregnancy was 7 years later during my first marriage. It was an unexpected pregnancy in a troubled and soon-to-end marriage. I NEVER considered abortion or adoption. My son is almost 9 now.
I always had female "issues". After having my son, my uterus wanted to constantly shed blood for months at a time. I decided it was time to remove my defective oven.
I now am engaged to a wonderful man. Sure, I'd love to have a child with him but even if I still had my "oven", I know at 40+, it would be selfish to have another child. Why? Because my child will have to bury us when he/she is still young. Children should have their parents (ideally) for the first 30-40 years of their lives. Grandparents are a vital role in the raising of grandchildren. People who adopt in their 40's and 50's will NOT be able to help with their grandchildren. They will actually cause an extra burden to their children because they will probably need family or expensive institutional care at the end of their lives.
What am I getting at? My fiance and I will get a puppy. I will share in the raising of his grandchildren and he will do the same with mine.
Old people should NOT adopt. Selfish people should NOT adopt.
If you have a defective or missing oven, get a puppy.
Plain Kate says exactly what I was thinking!
ReplyDeleteSpot on.What does bother me is the adoptees who are adopters and have taken on the adoption hype, somehow forgetting about the adoption experience and that perspective.
ReplyDeleteWhat I don't get is when that statement "You just don't understand" implies that the woman's infertility grief is supposed to, I don't know, be more traumatizing than a child who's had to be adopted?
ReplyDeleteI mean, when an adult adoptee talks about pain and losing their original parents, and then the prospective parent says something like "Well, you don't know how it's like to feel that you can't conceive like a normal person!"
It almost feels like they're trying to prove their loss of the role of conceiving (eg. "If I can't even create a child biologically, then what purpose do I have?") is worse than the loss of the original family to the adopted child.
Adoptee who had a son who passed away as an infant and because of that I chose never to get pregnant again because the reality of not having a family health history was made vividly real to me that day, coupled with the knowledge I would not survive another loss...
ReplyDeleteThanks for finding me Amanda, and taking the time to shoot a comment out so i could find you!
ReplyDeleteI have mulling over a lot lately how I have noticed , time and time again...that infertility and entitlement seem to be bedfellows for women that choose to adopt.
Of Course, not in every circumstance...
I only know for certain what I found to be so in my adoption...and in hindsight of course....
My first child's Adoptive Mom struggled for years trying to have a baby...TONS of induced stress and martyring i'm sure....
I mean, think about it.... if someone stresses their body, mind and spirit out to the extent that they prevent themselves from being able to carry and conceive a baby...THAT SHOULD BE A RED FLAG!
When i chose D to parent M, i was sooooo stupid about this!
I thought * this woman is older so she is stable and mature and knows about life and can provide * i thought...this poor woman, she must feel awful, how sad for her - she of all people deserves my baby.
{{{ugg, makes me want to puke writing this}}}
It never once crossed my mind that she could have done it all to herself!
And that these signs were a neon flashing light from the universe saying DON'T CHOOSE HER!!
But..alas...i was a moron.
Someone should have kicked me in the head!
So...and u may have read this today over at my blog...but she got pregnant and carried a baby to term 11 months after she took M from me!!
So, I gave my baby to an unhealthy control freak while trying to keep her away from another unhealthy control freak!
God, i would call this a tragic irony, but then i would have to kick myself in the head.
what i fool i was.
how sad.
And THIS is my guilt. I will likely never shake it.
And can I link to your blog from my right column where i have begun to list the wise women in adoptions' blogs??
I really need to build the adoptee blog list.
I feel these(yours) are the most important ones to be heard xxoo
:::::HUGS:::::
Mama K.
Thank you everyone for your comments.
ReplyDeleteMama K,
Of course you can link to my blog :-) I would be honored to be on your blog roll.
Thanks for sharing your story with me. I look forward to reading more of your blog. You've been through so much. (((hugs)))
Hi Amanda,
ReplyDeleteThanks for such a thought-provoking post. I agree with a huge amount of what you've said, especially your conclusion:
Bottom line? If I had fertility problems and had experienced miscarriage would I then stop advocating for the rights of children to stay with their original families and be adopted in an ethical manner out of empathy for the couples who badly want to become parents? No. I have had fertility problems and have lost a pregnancy and I still think that adoption should be about the rights and welfare of children; period.
Amen to that!! Way too often, infertility pain can be used as an excuse to not think critically about adoption. And APs can certainly use their own painful experiences as a reason to dismiss the pain that adoptees have been through. However, I do'nt think that the pain olympics, the 'my pain is so bad it means your pain isn't real' is limited to APs. I wrote about this a little recently:
http://my--fascinating--life.blogspot.com/2010/08/story.html
I think what I was trying to say is that *many* people affected by adoption trivialise what other triad members have been through. You obviously do 'get' fertility pain- I'm sorry that you've had to go through the pain that means you do. But I would respectfully disagree that this 'getting it' is universal among adoptees. As you say, adoptees are just people, subject to the same wide range of experience as other people. And the world in general doesn't 'get' infertility pain; why should adoptees?
I read your previous post, the Infertile Wound, and found myself nodding my head so hard that my neck began to hurt. I was particularly struck by this passage:
Loss is the common ground where empathy should be sought--not the telling of First Mothers to "get over it" or adoptees "voicing loss means you hate your parents" where in the end, only Adoptive Parents are entitled to feel cheated. Sometimes even Adoptive Parents aren’t allowed to feel cheated either as people assume that adoption has “cured” their infertility and that they have no entitlement to any issues because they’ve adopted. Honestly, everyone impacted by adoption should know what it feels like to be seen as an “attention seeker” and to be told to be quiet.
I totally agree with all of that. And I guess the reason I find myself disagreeing with parts of *this* post is that I really don't think it's universal, yet, this desire to empathise with each other over our interrelated losses. It's not only APs who don't 'get it'. Even some of the comments on this post don't exactly seem to drip with compassion towards those who have suffered infertility.
Okay, what am I actually trying to say here? Infertility pain is definitely no excuse for poor adoption ethics. But that doesn't mean it's not real, and I do think it's too often dismissed by adult adoptees in dialogue. There's room for more compassion, from all of us.
Sorry for the insanely long comment!!!
Hi Claud,
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for your thoughtful comment and reading my blog :-)
I didn't mean to imply that the understanding is universal. I was aiming just to refute the assumption that because an adoptee believes in adoption reform that they *must* never have had fertility problems. So many adoptees have had fertility problems, just like anyone else could have fertility problems; so I felt the automatic assumption of the people quoted hadn't been fair.
I think empathy with a wide array of people is always good. But I still struggle to understand why it would it be specifically necessary for an adopted person to understand infertility within the triad, experienced by another triad member (I really am open to suggestions). So often we hear infertility as the reason WHY we needed to experience our loss--so our parents could get a chance to parent. We see this now in adoption practice where expectant mothers are asked "think of all the infertile couples." Adoptees are asked to think of them too when expressing their own pain. I just don't understand why?
When I think to common adoption explanations give to adoptees, that I've read, heard, and been told myself....so many of them seem to say "YOU [the adoptee] are here for ME [the parent]" especially when "not being able to have babies" or infertility are included in the explanation.
I guess I am saying that I don't think infertility, though it is, ideally should be a loss interrelated with adoption. People (infertile or not) should adopt to provide love to a truly needy child. Love should be the motivation--not infertility loss.
So whether or not adoptees experience infertility first-hand, many have had infertility explained to them in how it relates to their own adoption and have been really hurt by others wanting them to understand because it's explained in a way that says "your loss was necessary because your parents needed a baby."
One of the first things an adoptive family member said to me when I went to reunite was "remember, your parents couldn't have kids" as if my job was to put aside my own needs and original family to remedy their losses. I don't like the adoption that views infertility and the place of the adoptee that way.
I hope you understand the point I'm trying to fumble to lol.
Thanks for reading
((hugs))
Amanda
Hi Amanda,
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for your kind reply. Your first paragraph really helped me understand the point you were making, thanks very much!
It's an interesting point you raise about whether or not fertility issues and adoption issues should be related at all! I've thought about this one a lot over the last few years, and my opinion is that they probably always will be, whether they should be or not. The further I go into adoptive parenting (and I'm only a year in, so far) the more I realise just HOW much extra... ummm.... purposefulness (?) is needed to parent children who are not ours by birth, at least if we want to do it in a way that's going to cause as little trauma as possible! I'm realising more and more just how much motivation is needed to really try to do this in a purposeful way. I think that probably, it's not surprising that a large number of people find that motivation because they weren't able to have children in the usual way. (I also know that a lot of people do it thoughtlessly, and that's a whole different issue). I do agree very strongly that the 'need' of the couple adopting should never be a reason for a child becoming adoptable - the decision that a child needs a new home should be entirely separate from how many people would like to parent that child.
(Probably worth mentioning here that I'm in the UK, where domestic infant adoption is essentially zero - so we do'nt have the issues of agencies guilt-tripping first parents with infertility horror stories. Which is a GOOD thing, obviously!)
Anyway, thanks again for your reply, and your thoughtful blog.
xxC
ps if any of my relatives said anything like that to either of my children they would be in serious trouble!
Thank you Amanda and Claudia for putting into words so much of what I feel. An Adoptee should NEVER be made to feel that the reason for their loss was so that someone else could find happiness. And if I have total love for my 2 adopted daughters, then I absolutely MUST be an advocate for ethical adoptions. How can I look at my children and say that I want what is best for them and not be willing to stand up for what is right for all children as I learn more and more about abuses in the adoption community? It should be the job of every adult in the world to be looking out for the best interest of all children.
ReplyDeleteOn to the fertility side, though, I think all members of the triad need to have empathy for each other's pain. We are all approaching each other carrying scars from what we have endured. It is not about who has suffered the most pain, but about acknowledging that there is pain there. I do not know what it is like to be a First Mom or an Adoptee, but I read to understand; I attempt to look into the abyss of pain and learn. I have yet to read an Adult Adoptee's or First Mom's blog where the individual does not want to be seen as that, an individual, and who claims the right to have her/his own feelings and write about those feelings, no matter how raw or hateful those feelings are towards the faceless multitudes of APs out there. Why then are APs not allowed to express their own feelings of pain on adoption forums and their own blogs? That is truly a double standard. Nothing about adoption is without struggle and pain. While I don't think we need to all sit around and sing "Kumbaya" together, we do need to start approaching each other with respect and tolerance, giving each other the benefit of the doubt that we do have a common goal - the best for children around the world who are at risk.
I'm back in school and it's hard for me to remember which threads I want to respond to, sorry this is late.
ReplyDeleteBut Claudia, I want to comment back to what you said about infertility possibly being a motivation to make the adoptive relationship work.
Lots of APs out there did not adopt because of infertility (20%) and many do have biological children. I would be interested in learning how they make things work and what their motivating factors are.
Also many APs who thought they could not have children do go on to give birth after they adopt. When one adopts and is making it work because of infertility, how does that enter into the equasion? I have met adoptees who can tell you they were treated no differently than their siblings. I have also met adoptees who were--some very differently.
Which is why the intertwining of adoption and infertility bothers me. Relationships should work because of love, not because of variables that are subject to change.
Please note I am not making assumptions about you or your relationships with your children. I am just speaking in general about the adoption/infertility issue. I know you get it and are an ally. :-)
The underlying theme to the infertility issue is that most members of the adoption triad are not getting what they want. If couples only choose to adopt because they are infertile then their first choice was to have bio-kids and adoption is a second best option for them. Most adoptees would have preferred to stay in their natural families and most first mothers would have preferred to keep their child. It seems that adoption is a lose-lose-lose rather than the win-win-win that it is purported to be.
ReplyDeleteI am a 42-yr old adoptee who has felt many of these same emotions over the years. In high school, I went to a Pastoral Counselor to talk about other issues but he quickly realized that I needed to acknowledge that my adoption had affected me in a profound way. He had devoted much time into the care of working with adoptive families and he shared something that helped me get a grasp on this crazy beast. He said, "to understand adoption you first have to understand LOSS. The entire triad experiences loss: the birth family, including parents, aunts, uncles, grandparents etc LOSE this wonderful child from their lives; the adoptive family, often comes to adoption because they have LOST the ability to have their own biological child; and the adoptee LOSES their heritage. Until you come to grips with the loss you can never find the joy."
ReplyDeleteI never had a moment when I learned that I was adopted, it was always discussed openly and freely. My parents always spoke about it in terms of CHOICE, that they had chosen me. Even though they grieved the loss of 3 children who died and one who survived but was severely disabled, they made me feel valued and loved. It wasn’t until I began to understand the losses they had endured, that I was able to deal with the losses I felt. After my pastor talked with me, I went to my mom and dad and for the first time asked them what it had been like to lose those children. Through the grief, tears, anger, and confusion as to why it happened, I was able to understand them BUT also my own grief. When I shared with them how I too felt those same emotions, but over the loss of my heritage and identity, we had an incredible break through. For the first time I felt at peace with being adopted and felt like I was exactly where I was supposed to be. Simply because they too, understood MY LOSS and they grieved WITH ME.
Even though my parents and grandparents were incredible it was often other family members who would speak about how "lucky" I was to be in this family, as if I "owed" my parents something that I could never repay. Or when I became the family historian, others couldn't understand why the adopted one was doing that.
Thankfully my grandma was incredibly wise. I will never forget in 4th grade when the dreaded family tree was a requirement and I stood up in class and threw my papers across the room and yelled, "I am NOT doing this! I have NO family tree!!!" When I went home crying, my grandma consoled me and in her matter of fact voice and a twinkle in her eye, said, "Well then, let’s make one up!" So we did. With my closed adoption, all I know about my birth parents is one small paragraph of info, which includes their age and ethnic origins, Italian and German. So we created a fantastical family tree that celebrated being Italian and German, even though my families heritage is 100% Dutch. Several months later, she gave me a gift, and it is still one of my most prized possessions. It says KISS ME I'M ITALIAN. That showed me that she loved me...loved ALL OF ME! She wasn't trying to make me Dutch or ignore my heritage. She embraced my being Italian and loved ME.
Sorry this is so long but I feel so strongly about the enormous blessing I received when I finally understood that the loss I felt was real and ok. I didn't have to feel "guilty" for having those feelings. AND that my parents ALSO FELT LOSS!! That was HUGE for me. Once we were able to talk about the loss that we both endured, we were able to celebrate the JOYS of being adopted into this family.
I know that each one of us has a unique story that needs to be celebrated. We don't have the corner on loss nor is our loss more or less significant than others. Understanding, grace and forgiveness can go a long way to a happier life.
Kristy