Editor's Note: this post has been slightly modified from its original version to make it clearer that the adoptive mother writing the post was not generalizing all adoptive parents. Rather, she was specifically responding to the attitudes some adoptive parents have as evidenced by the responses from those parents that were received on the post she links to in her first paragraph and elsewhere on the internet. Please read the addendum here for a more thoughts on the discussion that transpired from this post.
When cruising through the on-line adoption world, I am frequently struck by the disconnect between the posts/comments of adult adoptees and those of adoptive parents. Recently, Amanda had a guest blogger whose post was entitled, "Being Adopted When Your Siblings are not....." The dismissive and rather cruel comments by the adoptive parents on that post and elsewhere on the web discussing the post typified the gap between the two groups. The issue raised in the post was rejected by a vast majority of the adoptive parents who were discussing it. Two of the most common dismissals really had me scratching my head in disbelief.
The most common justification for dismissing the blogger’s idea was that no children in a home are ever parented in exactly the same manner; therefore adoptees have no right to feel that their experience has anything to do with being adopted. This made me wonder. How would the same people react if they had a friend who had blond hair but was very sensitive about the “dumb blond” stereotype. Sensitive to the point where they friend was seriously considering dying her hair black because she felt her ideas would be taken more seriously and her life would improve. Would they bombard her constantly with dumb blond jokes? Invite her to dinner with someone who was notorious for telling blond jokes? I doubt it. Rather they would consider that to be totally insensitive to the needs of someone who already considers herself to be different. So why is it okay to dismiss a child’s feelings of being different? Why is it okay to put them into a situation where they feel so different?
Along side the everyone’s–raised-differently-so-suck-it-up comments was the other common justification for dismissing the ideas. This one is used for just about anything in adoption: “Would you rather have the child grow up in an orphanage?”
Not a single poster suggested that maybe a child be placed in a home with only adopted children and I wondered why? With waits upwards of two years for most adoption programs, it is obvious that there is no shortage of homes for children so, why not? It doesn’t make a lot of sense from a child centric view. But from a parent centric view, clearly it does. After all, these people have always dreamed of adopting, so they have the right to a child, right?
That’s when the light bulb went off for me - the reason for the disconnect between adoptees and adopters. The adoptees felt that adoption should be about finding a home for a child and the adoptive parents posts reflected they may feel that adoption is about finding a child for a home. This is a subtle difference perhaps, but one that changes the practices from child centric to adult centric.
In this highly connected time, there is no longer an excuse for many of these adoption practices to continue. Too many adopted people have come forward to let society know how these practices have added a layer of trauma to an already traumatic situation. How is it in a child of color’s best interest to be placed into a home that is not diverse? Into a community that they are they only child of color? Into a family that has little to no connection with anyone of their race? Adoptee after adoptee has stated that is isn’t in their best interest and yet SW continue to approve homes exactly like this without a thought on how this will affect the child. Then after the adoption the onus is on the child to adapt to being the only person of color in his world, rather than the parents making his world a more color friendly one. The parents have the child they want. It might not be the best place for the child, but that fact doesn’t seem to cross their minds.
In keeping with the parent-centric view, other adoption practices make sense as well, changing a child’s name, for example. How is that in the child’s best interest? Not only has she lost her family but also the one thing that is truly hers, her name. And yet it is done daily. In fact, in many cases a child is stripped of her past, her medical information, her extended family ties, and her original birth certificate. All of this is lost because the parents want to pretend they are the only parents that matters.
This practice of finding a child for a home doesn’t seem to be getting any better. In fact, after reading a thread where the adoptive parents that were participating in the thread chided adult adoptees for not using PC language that the parents have developed to make themselves feel better, I am beginning to doubt it ever will. And that is a shame. Before the internet, adoptive parents had the chance to plead ignorance to the adoption practices that were hurting the very people they were supposed to help. After all, who told them anything different? Adoptees of a certain generation have been able to give their adoptive parents a pass because of the total lack of information about how adoption affects them, but now? Now the information is readily available and adoptive parents can now only plead indifference rather than ignorance.
Until we get adoption back on track, back to a child-centric view of finding a home for a child, the gap between the two groups is only going to widen. There will be more and more “angry adoptees,” angry that their voices and experiences are being ignored, if not out right attacked by a parent centric view of adoption. Every angry adult adoptee was once a child. No one ever adopted saying, “I'm going to hurt this child so much that they turn against adoption.” Every adoptive parent is raising a potential angry adoptee. Is that what we want? To be judged as indifferent to their needs? I hope not. I hope that adoption gets back on track before more children are placed in homes that are not the best homes for them. Let’s start making the guiding principal of adoption, “Is this home the best one for this child,” and narrow the gap between adoptees and adoptive parents. Your child will thank you for it.
Photo Credit: David Castillo Dominici
The most common justification for dismissing the blogger’s idea was that no children in a home are ever parented in exactly the same manner; therefore adoptees have no right to feel that their experience has anything to do with being adopted. This made me wonder. How would the same people react if they had a friend who had blond hair but was very sensitive about the “dumb blond” stereotype. Sensitive to the point where they friend was seriously considering dying her hair black because she felt her ideas would be taken more seriously and her life would improve. Would they bombard her constantly with dumb blond jokes? Invite her to dinner with someone who was notorious for telling blond jokes? I doubt it. Rather they would consider that to be totally insensitive to the needs of someone who already considers herself to be different. So why is it okay to dismiss a child’s feelings of being different? Why is it okay to put them into a situation where they feel so different?
Along side the everyone’s–raised-differently-so-suck-it-up comments was the other common justification for dismissing the ideas. This one is used for just about anything in adoption: “Would you rather have the child grow up in an orphanage?”
Not a single poster suggested that maybe a child be placed in a home with only adopted children and I wondered why? With waits upwards of two years for most adoption programs, it is obvious that there is no shortage of homes for children so, why not? It doesn’t make a lot of sense from a child centric view. But from a parent centric view, clearly it does. After all, these people have always dreamed of adopting, so they have the right to a child, right?
That’s when the light bulb went off for me - the reason for the disconnect between adoptees and adopters. The adoptees felt that adoption should be about finding a home for a child and the adoptive parents posts reflected they may feel that adoption is about finding a child for a home. This is a subtle difference perhaps, but one that changes the practices from child centric to adult centric.
In this highly connected time, there is no longer an excuse for many of these adoption practices to continue. Too many adopted people have come forward to let society know how these practices have added a layer of trauma to an already traumatic situation. How is it in a child of color’s best interest to be placed into a home that is not diverse? Into a community that they are they only child of color? Into a family that has little to no connection with anyone of their race? Adoptee after adoptee has stated that is isn’t in their best interest and yet SW continue to approve homes exactly like this without a thought on how this will affect the child. Then after the adoption the onus is on the child to adapt to being the only person of color in his world, rather than the parents making his world a more color friendly one. The parents have the child they want. It might not be the best place for the child, but that fact doesn’t seem to cross their minds.
In keeping with the parent-centric view, other adoption practices make sense as well, changing a child’s name, for example. How is that in the child’s best interest? Not only has she lost her family but also the one thing that is truly hers, her name. And yet it is done daily. In fact, in many cases a child is stripped of her past, her medical information, her extended family ties, and her original birth certificate. All of this is lost because the parents want to pretend they are the only parents that matters.
This practice of finding a child for a home doesn’t seem to be getting any better. In fact, after reading a thread where the adoptive parents that were participating in the thread chided adult adoptees for not using PC language that the parents have developed to make themselves feel better, I am beginning to doubt it ever will. And that is a shame. Before the internet, adoptive parents had the chance to plead ignorance to the adoption practices that were hurting the very people they were supposed to help. After all, who told them anything different? Adoptees of a certain generation have been able to give their adoptive parents a pass because of the total lack of information about how adoption affects them, but now? Now the information is readily available and adoptive parents can now only plead indifference rather than ignorance.
Until we get adoption back on track, back to a child-centric view of finding a home for a child, the gap between the two groups is only going to widen. There will be more and more “angry adoptees,” angry that their voices and experiences are being ignored, if not out right attacked by a parent centric view of adoption. Every angry adult adoptee was once a child. No one ever adopted saying, “I'm going to hurt this child so much that they turn against adoption.” Every adoptive parent is raising a potential angry adoptee. Is that what we want? To be judged as indifferent to their needs? I hope not. I hope that adoption gets back on track before more children are placed in homes that are not the best homes for them. Let’s start making the guiding principal of adoption, “Is this home the best one for this child,” and narrow the gap between adoptees and adoptive parents. Your child will thank you for it.
Photo Credit: David Castillo Dominici
Interesting. I think that the one thing that is missing is the most important step of all. Making sure that a child that can be raised by their natural family, is raised by their natural family.
ReplyDeleteIt should never be about the adults. Not from the start. Always about the child.
You talked about a child of color - African-American, Native-American, etc., I assume are all included - and it immediately brought to mind Hargitay's adoption of a African-American baby girl. Hargitay being 50 (49 at the time of the adoption), being very white, and living on Long Island in the, shall we say "way beyond normal" lifestyle.... Who was the adoption for?
It never ends.
Well said...
ReplyDelete"Adoptees feel that adoption should be about finding a home for a child and adopters feel that adoption is about finding a child for a home."
ReplyDeleteI struggle with the generalizations going on here....
Courtney
I should have clarified in my post that the dismissive comments from the adoptive parents about the post "being adopted when your siblings aren't" were not on the Declassified Adoptee blog, rather they were scattered through forums that are adoptive parent focused.
ReplyDeleteTerri
Thank you.
ReplyDeleteWell, let's just lump everyone into categories and beat each other up why don't we? This post...which is supposed (I guess) to be about how we need to bridge the gap between the mindsets of AA's and AP's...is in fact over-generalizing people and adding to the devisiveness. *sigh* When will we learn to really talk to one another as individuals?
ReplyDeleteT
Taking away my name - that's the worst for me, for some reason. Even if I found out that my father was Charles Manson (unlikely), I would change my name to "Manson". Children don't get to choose their parents or their names. I just want my "real" name.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree wholeheartedly - our society is less about "taking care of...the orphans", more about creating orphans.
Assuming some of the people who made the comments about over-generalizing are adoptive parents, I will say that I am really, really tired of some APs coming on here whenever APs are mentioned and complaining about the "generalizations."
ReplyDeleteOverall, I do not see on AP blogs the attempt to include adult adoptees, neither as references, guest blogs, or on blog rolls.
Yet when an adoptee expresses their impression of how adoptees are treated over all by a large amount of adoptive parents, all of a sudden, we get told how we can or can't voice what we see. If, overall, APs as a group want to engage in conversation with adult adoptees, then do so. But do not come onto my blog and pretend like all APs are just reaching out to those of us adoptees and adoptees just can't get it together with all of our generalizations.
Give me a break. We are not the power-holders, aka the "majority" heard-from people in adoption. APs are. You should be empowering us, not the other way around.
and what Terri was referencing were large groups of APs on message boards discussing the post and most of them did have to say what she said here. That is not a "generalization" that is how a lot of people truly responded.
ReplyDeleteIf that's bothersome, I agree, it bothers me too. I wish people sought to understand adoptees more instead of just talking amongst themselves and being dismissive.
There are many AP's (the AP's that I associate myself with) that are involved in in depth discussions with AA's. We have blogs with links to AA's blogs, a blog specifically to open up discussion among AP's and AA (that was more active last year), fb groups to do the same, and AA's who we know personally and who provide us with a lot of guidance, soul searching, and who have made a huge impact in the way we think. I am honored to know the AA's who have stretched my way of thinking, and the AP's who have done the same. I too get *very* annoyed by the specific AP's that I feel do not honor or care about what AA's teach/educate/speak about. I wouldn't want to be a part of an AP group that does not listen to the opinions of AA's. My frustration is that many of us AP's, who are open minded and still have much to learn, get clumped into this category...this generalization represented in this blog post. I want to hear the opinions of AA's. I don't want to listen to AA's bashing AP's or AP's bashing AA's. That is where my frustration comes in. I hear the frustration in this blog post, and I think it is very legitimate for many AP's out there..but please know that "we,"...all AP's...should not be represented like this. I believe that clumping AP's into this kind of category is polarizing...which is exactly what we all want to stop happening. Bridge the gap with discussion and not bashing. Talk about the frustrations...please, that is how we learn. But don't jump to assumptions about me if you want me to listen. No one wants to hang out with a group that automatically dislikes you. And I know that many AA's feel the exact same way...by the majority group (the AP's) and I am *just* as annoyed with AP's who do that.
ReplyDeleteT
Amanda, I don't think that anybody is saying that all APs are reaching out to adult adoptees. That's clearly not happening!
ReplyDeleteI guess the point is that 'all APs' aren't doing anything. Those of us who are trying to engage in dialogue aren't trying to tell anybody what to think, or censor their speech. Speaking for myself - all that I want is that other people don't presume to tell me what *I* think, what I believe, what I stand for. And I would like to point out that the posts that have been difficult for me to read lately have all been written by AP guest posters! So this is not about the way that YOU write - you are always careful to NOT overgeneralise, and I have always really appreciated that.
You've written, often, about how irritating it is when you feel that the group you belong to (adult adopted people) is misrepresented, or generalisations are made. Surely you can see that it's irritating for us too? There's a really really big difference between saying 'I have noticed a tendency in APs towards doing X' and saying 'all APs do X'. I think that the first is helpful. The second one - when it's not true - not so much. I think that it really shuts down dialogue, actually, because it means that I'm typing a comment like this rather than something more constructive! I hope that we've been reading each other's blogs for long enough for you to kno that I'm not trying to shut you down or shut out your voice - but I really don't think it's unreasonable to say 'you don't speak for me' when OTHER APs tell the world what APs do and don't do.
And of course... if I ever generalise about Adult Adoptees, on MY blog, I would expect you to call me out!
Claudia (commenting as anon because of google issues)
...and I read and share AA blog posts with others in an attempt to get important messages across, but mostly to learn more myself. However, I would not share this blog post b/c of the generalizations. So yes, I want to get more engaged and reference valuable insight...even/mostly what is difficult to hear...but I am not going to reference or learn myself from posts that attack me with these types of assumptions. That is what I am trying to get at. I want to learn more...I want to spread AA messages more...but not if we are bashing one another. It doesn't work like that. And I will not be associated with AP's who bash all AA's. I'm seeing this happening all over the place. And you can't win that argument...to be frustrated by certain/many AP's for their closemindedness & incorrect assumptions and then do something very similar right back. Because then we are attacking one another based on assumptions and it closes down conversation. And my frustration is just as much with those AP's who would disregard valuable insight from AA's.
ReplyDeleteT
I should have clarified in my post that the dismissive comments from the adoptive parents about the post "being adopted when your siblings aren't" were not on the Declassified Adoptee blog, rather they were scattered through forums that are adoptive parent focused."
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you've cleared that up. It was quite the omission, all things considered.
HeavenstoBetsy
I do love the way that posters are avoiding discussing the issue(s) raised in this post by focusing instead on their feelings about the wording. I have seen this approached used many times over the years, when you can't argue with the message or information, attack the semantics used to relay the information and thus totally avoid dealing with the entire issue.
ReplyDelete"I don't like generalizations"
ReplyDelete"Not everyone acts/thinks this way"
"You don't speak for all adoptees/mothers/parents"
"I know an adoptee who loves adoption"
"My adoptive parents never did this"
"I would listen but the profanity turned me off"
ETC, ETC, ETC.....
We could go on forever listing the various methods employed to derail a discussion. When will people just read and absorb without searching for an simplistic excuse to dismiss valid points?
@HeavenstoBetsy, you're right, it was a huge omission and it wasn't until the post was read back to me by a friend that I realized how it could be misinterpreted. Sometimes, when you are not an experienced writer, it is very easy to forget that people can't read your mind, only your words and they have no idea what you were talking about unless you spell it out.
ReplyDeleteMy apologies for not making it clearer in the original post. The rest I stand by. Is it a generaliztion? Of course it is and if the shoe fits then wear it, if it doesn't then don't.
Terri
The heart of this blog post was "That’s when the light bulb went off for me - the reason for the disconnect between adoptees and adopters. Adoptees feel that adoption should be about finding a home for a child and adopters feel that adoption is about finding a child for a home. This is a subtle difference perhaps, but one that changes the practices from child centric to adult centric." And that is what I disagree with. How is that avoiding the topic? I do not think you can clump every AP into that category. So...how do I respond to that? Where is there an open door for me to fit into this conversation as an AP? How about a rewording of that...such as, It appears to me that many adoptees feel that adoption should be about finding a home for a child rather than finding a child for a home. I would like to participate in a discussion like that. One that invites me to participate rather than one that straight up tells me as an AP that I am not child centered. And I would want to participate with people who I felt would listen to me...so that I could also listen in turn. I do not feel comfortable participating in in depth discussions with people who automatically think I'm the bad guy. That is the point I am making.
ReplyDeleteT
I am fairly new to this blog but definitely intrigued and, as an adoptive parent of a young child, hoping to learn more about her potential experience of adoption through engaging more with adult adoptees.
ReplyDeleteI really resonated with the sentence about adoptive parents feeling that adoption is a way to find a child for their home rather than a family for a child. I don't think we all feel that way, particularly as we learn and grow and engage. But I think that many adoptive families who have longed to become parents do approach adoption very naively. I know we did in our initial discussions until we learned more and became more intentional.
But often the longing to parent becomes rather all consuming. I am sure any parent here will understand that. Doesn't make it right but hopefully those of us who understand that adoption should be about finding a family for a child are helping others understand this through compassionate and empathetic dialogue. (There is room for empathy - for adoptees who have much loss and for infertile families who also have loss and desperately wish for a child/ren. Right?)
My question for the adoptive parent/adult adoptee guest bloggers is this: how was the adoption of your child "different?" I am not being facetious. I really want to know because I think that your sharing a bit of your story would be very helpful. Often PAPs who know, theoretically that adoption should be about finding homes for children and not the other way around, have no idea how to ensure that this is taking place in their adoption. We can't all be equipped to be open to any age, any need, any waiting child. So how should we enter into adoption? (Specifically interested in thoughts about domestic adoption if anyone has that experience.) Thanks. Amanda (going to try to link my profile but blogger is being weird.)
"When cruising through the on-line adoption world, Recently, Amanda had a guest blogger whose post was entitled, "Being Adopted When Your Siblings are not....." The dismissive and rather cruel comments by the adoptive parents typified the gap between the two groups. The issue raised in the post was rejected by a vast majority of the adoptive parents. Two of the most common dismissals really had me scratching my head in disbelief."
ReplyDelete"I am frequently struck by the disconnect between the posts/comments of adult adoptees and those of adoptive parents."
Frequently does not denote always.
"The dismissive and rather cruel comments by the adoptive parents typified the gap between the two groups."
Speaking about specfic type of comments that showed the obvious gap - not all comments just specific comments.
"The issue raised in the post was rejected by a vast majority of the adoptive parents."
Vast majority means that there were parents who did not reject the issue.
I listened to the words and the message and thought it was well done and frankly was not a generalization. I understood what she was saying when she started off with the "cruising through the on-line world" metaphor at the very beginning.
Perhaps the larger message is that like with what happened in the original post referenced, the writer had not be slammed enough times to ensure every sentence had a disclaimer.
Amanda feel free to delete this if you want to.
I enjoyed this post.
ReplyDeleteI am an adoptee whose two younger siblings are not adopted. And frequently my mom and I have a disconnect concerning adoption. When I try to be honest about my feelings on adoption and toward both my families, she turns it back on me to where it becomes an argument. She has gotten angry with me in the past just for talking to others about being adopted. She gets angry when someone brings up a topic that results in me saying, "I'm adopted." (Her anger directed at me, not the person who brought up the topic.) I have tried to tell her that my feelings of being different and separate from my (adoptive) family just are... but she can't seem to accept it. To her, if I feel that way then there must be a reason and she believes it can be fixed... which isn't the case. I've tried to tell her that it will always be this way; it's just the way things are.
I could go on. But... my point is that this was a good post and it struck a chord with the miscommunication my mother and I seem to have. I'm still not sure how to fix it because at this point I'm afraid to even try to discuss the subject with her. And I don't think that even I could bring myself to talk to her about it that she would understand... or even attempt to understand.
I know she loves me. But she doesn't realize that sometimes it feels more like I'm a piece of property than an adult child.
I read through Terri's post and made the choice to post it. If I felt it was offensive or generalizing, I would not have posted it. If you think because I am an adult adoptee blogger that it can be assumed that I automatically have something against APs, then that's a generalization about me/adoptees just the same. Her very first paragraph links to the actual post she was referring to where she says "THE" adoptive parents (meaning the ones who responded in the link she gave, and as she has clarified here, other specific adoptive parents who responded to the blog entry in message boards elsewhere) not "ALL" adoptive parents. These are the adoptive parents she is referencing in her post. The rest of her post is written within that specific context. Considering that and the fact that she is herself an adoptive parent, I honestly do not read this as her saying ALL adoptive parents are X or X.
ReplyDeleteThis seems to happen on my blog whenever adoptive parents are mentioned. Instead of talking about the topic at hand, some people come and detract from and derail the conversation by either (1) pick at the person who wrote the piece (2) pick at the wording of the piece or (3) tell an adoptee in what way they may verbalize their perception of something within adoption in order for it to be acceptable.
I have written numerous blog posts thanking the APs who come here regularly to listen and provide constuctive commentary on a varity of topics. What bothers me is that I get the most hits from people who are APs on posts where APs are the topic, when they feel "picked on." It would be nice to have this kind of feedback from more AP readers on topics that aren't about APs. It makes me, and other adoptee bloggers I am sure, feel like our material is only worthwhile when it comes to AP topics (and then we can't even seem to discuss how we preceive SOME APs to be properly). That is just incredibly discouraging.
T, I am always, always looking for links to blogs and pages where APs include adult adoptees, who put them on blog rolls, and who seek to engage in discussion with them. Most specifically, blogs and pages where APs are open to a wide spectrum of adoptee experiences, feelings, and opinions and do not tell adoptees they must present their experiences of living adoption within a certain package and presentation of acceptableness in order to have a place at the table. If you have the links to sites and blogs like this, please let me know the URLs so that I can consider linking to them in my various resource lists.
And I think people have made a thorough point about feeling generalized. It's a point well-made on most any entry I post here that includes groups of people who are adoptive parents as a topic. I get it. This particular entry will no longer be accepting commentary that does not provide discussion on the topics brought up by the guest blogger in her post.
ReplyDeleteHere are some things I would have liked to hear from people:
1. Were the points that the APs who responded, either on message boards or on the linked post itseld, valid? Or were they dismissive like Terri stated she feels they are?
2. Do you think children should be placed in homes as only children or only other adopted children and not homes where the parents have biological children? Why or why not?
3. Do you think that enough APs are sensitive to how an adoptee may feel being in essense the "odd one out" among siblings or that it really is an issue more APs need to be aware of when raising their children? How do we let others know this?
There are some starting points. If you have a problem with my blog you think I should know about, my email address is listed. I do not bite :-)
Litha, thank you for sharing your story.
theadoptedones, you read the post the same way I did. I somehow manage to have AP friends, an AP pastor, and AP co-workers and they've never found me hateful or intentionally cruel to them :-)
Me. Us. She. you ask a valid question to Terri and I think she'll have a good answer for you :-)
Funnily enough I just posted on the disconnect too but from a different angle.Love how those threads run!Great post.
ReplyDeleteOMG! Another "open-minded" adoptoraptor turning the conversation around to be all about their fee-fees and how awesome they are, and how come we don't appreciate that?
ReplyDeleteMaybe you are lying to yourself my dear because you sure like all the entitled rest from here
Joy
1. Were the points that the APs who responded, either on message boards or on the linked post itseld, valid? Or were they dismissive like Terri stated she feels they are?
ReplyDeleteThe message board I read that was discussing the post were primarily trying to justify why it wasn't so. A few posters thought it was a justifiable concern that parents needed to recognise the potential for.
2. Do you think children should be placed in homes as only children or only other adopted children and not homes where the parents have biological children? Why or why not?
I do believe it comes down to the personalities of all parties. I know it is hard to assume what a child's personality will be like but you can look at the mother and father for some clues. Then look at the prospective parents and their intentions and personality types and really make the best judgment call possible.
I am not sure this is done at the present and would go further and think there should be a session solely on parenting bio and adopted together and then go from there for the SW to make the call. Certain people (both parents and child) could do just fine - others probably not. Clear case of where finding a home for a child vs finding a child for a home comes into play big time.
3. Do you think that enough APs are sensitive to how an adoptee may feel being in essense the "odd one out" among siblings or that it really is an issue more APs need to be aware of when raising their children? How do we let others know this?
I think the best intentioned parents can miss this as well as other feelings related to adoption. Children learn quickly what is and isn't acceptable to talk about from the body language and willingness of the parent to look at a hard topic. A parent may not realize they are doing this. Children then adapt to what keeps the peace and does not cause any hurt. Very easy for parents to assume all is well when at best, it is hard for a child to find the words, let alone tell the parent something they perceive may hurt the parent. It is something a parent needs to be sensitive too, and perhaps one of the main reasons why talking about adoption from day one is important (long before the child understands) - it give them time to adjust to talking about it without reserve or uncomfortableness.
Me, Us, She... I appreciate and empathize with your infertility issues. And I am so touched that you are aware enough of the issues we adoptees deal with that you would come on the blog of an adoptee and ask very good questions! (Have you read A Primal Wound? My husband said it's as if I read the book and acted it out - before I ever read it!) I truly wish every aparent would be the same. :)
ReplyDeleteI think, in my case, and in some other adoptees, perhaps, our ability to empathize with your infertility is not the same as offering to be the solution to it. Herein lies the big issue. You get a baby, but we lose everything.
My only advice is to find her parents, if you don't already know them. Let them be a part of her life. Scary? Yes. But denial is worse, for you and for her. Sometimes we parents have to do the hard things for our child's benefit. It sounds like you are more than up for the task.
By the way, I just posted about what it feels like to be an adoptee, if you are interested (13branches.blogspot.com - Are you my mother?). I hope that's ok, Amanda!! (If not, delete!! I won't be offended!)
My very best to you.
OK, as an AP, I'll bite:
ReplyDelete1. Were the points that the APs who responded, either on message boards or on the linked post itseld, valid? Or were they dismissive like Terri stated she feels they are?
I didn't see any comments that were "everyone’s–raised-differently-so-suck-it-up" and therefore can't respond to any specific comments but I will say on that topic that mindful, intentional AP's who have both bio and adopted kids do, in some ways, parent them differently (for the record, I don't have any bio kids). That doesn't necessarily mean "lesser" it just means different. I am quite certain that I give my son a pass on a lot of his behaviors because I keep his losses in the back of my mind at all times. I'm equally certain that if he were a bio child, quite frankly, I'd be telling him to suck it up a lot more. That may be completely off base for the comments that Terri refers to but it is one perspective that could have been misrepresented. If it truly was a 'suck it up' comment, I don't think there's any question that it was dismissive.
2. Do you think children should be placed in homes as only children or only other adopted children and not homes where the parents have biological children? Why or why not?
I've only thought about this since reading the post this morning so I'm still wrapping my head around it. Having said that, I cringe a little when I see a family photo that depicts a gaggle of bio kids with one obviously adopted child thrown in, so maybe my gut reaction is that adoption after bio kids should ideally be done if there are (or are going to be) more than one adopted child. On the other hand, if the kids being adopted are waiting children (i.e. where there is no 2 yr wait to adopt), is it better for that child to continue to wait for an ideal family or to take the one that wants them now? I'm guessing that in most cases, the families who want to adopt older or special needs kids probably feel ready to take on that challenge because they've already done some parenting. So do you limit the most "adoptable" kids to the most ideal families? What does that say to waiting children? That they can go to less desirable families because they are less desirable themselves? That REALLY makes me cringe. All that to say, I don't know.
Apparently, I wrote a novel, to be continued...
3. Do you think that enough APs are sensitive to how an adoptee may feel being in essense the "odd one out" among siblings or that it really is an issue more APs need to be aware of when raising their children? How do we let others know this?
ReplyDeleteSome are and some aren't obviously but I'd agree that once an AP is aware of it, of course they should do whatever they can to minimize the "odd one out" feeling. At that point you might get into other gray areas. Adoptees are often hurt by losing their birth name. So, as an "aware" AP, do you keep the child's name, including last name; keep the given names, but use the AP's last name; or give them a family name that makes them feel more a part of the family? I'm not sure there's a right answer.
The bottom line is that each adoptee is different and carries with them different losses and experiences. From the individual AA's perspective, they already know what their losses and sensitivities are. I think some of the disconnect between AP's and AA's are because the AP is trying to juggle the needs of their particular child and all of the nuances that come with THAT child without the benefit of the hindsight that an AA has about their particular childhood (which may or may not apply to someone else). That's one of the thing that makes the AP vilification so unproductive. Call it derailing if you will but if AP's are chased away from adoptee spaces the dialogue that could result in better understanding between the two groups (and better parenting by AP's) is quashed. That goes both ways, of course, the idea of "angry adoptee" isn't helpful either, I'm just speaking from an AP perspective. I should also point out that there are tragic hordes of AP's who put little to no thought into these issues and they certainly don't represent me or the AP's that I choose to associate with.
I just got back from karate and haven't had time to read through all the responses yet but I'm brainstorming an answer for Me. Us. She. as well. I may actually post it as an "Ask an Adoptee" Question on Lost Daughters (http://daughterslost.blogspot.com), if that's OK with Me. Us. She. ?
ReplyDeleteKristi, posting your link is fine! If I don't have you on my blog roll already, I'll have to remind myself later to put you on there. I'll read your link when I get back and add you to my Delicious stack for this week. Thank you! :-)
"Call it derailing if you will but if AP's are chased away from adoptee spaces the dialogue that could result in better understanding between the two groups (and better parenting by AP's) is quashed"
ReplyDeleteSo every time someone writes a post, instead of saying "APs tend to do xyz", we all need to write constant disclaimers saying "some APs tend to do xyz"?
Mei-Ling
@Me. Us. She. Good questions and I'm thinking more about them. I will get back to you just as soon as I can formulate my thoughts. I'm not sure what you meant by how are our adoptions different so I don't know how to answer that one.
ReplyDeleteTerri
I didn't read all the comments. When I was a PAP,it was important to me to choose an agency that was child centered. About 70% of parents serviced by the agency I chose parented rather than placed. I chose the agency for that reason. I did not want a baby at any cost. I did not want a baby with parent(s) that were willing and able (with support) to parent. All that said, yes I did want a baby. I wanted to be a mother and I went the adoption route aware that my gain was a loss for another family and my potential child. I struggle with that. In the end, I think I am doing the best job I can to parent and adopted child, to understand her and to validate her narrative. Am I still "complicit"? I guess I am in some way. I participated in adoption, and that is a questionable act to many. I will say that with the circumstances of my daughter's adoption there was no question she was going to be placed. I am so lucky it was with me and hubby.
ReplyDeleteAs to the bio siblings, I had strong opinions. As an infertile, I had tried to have bio children. I made peace with my infertility, and once that little girl was placed in my arms, I became completely horrified at the idea of having a bio child. I would never, ever want her to feel any less than, different, second best. I feared the urban legend of becoming pregnant after adoption. When some of my parts were removed in a later surgery, I was so relieved to never have to consider that thought again.
Also a consideration in adopting again (we will not) was openness. We began an "open" adoption in which her first mother has largely backed away, and in which our daughter is a secret to everyone else in her first family. I feared so much a second adoption would be different, and my daughter would have the added pain of having a first mother who did not want to see her while having a sibling with an active relationship with his/her first family. In the end she is an only child, which brings its own pros and cons.
I personally have never found you to be "anti-AP" or dismissive of any point of view or person, Amanda. I appreciate you and your blog so much. I am ever grateful that my daughter will have her foremothers in adoption to look to, fighting for her to be seen, to be heard, to have basic rights.
I'm not quite sure what I meant by it either. Let me explain a bit about my family and then come back - maybe the explanation will help formulate some questions. We adopted overseas last year. I work in international development/child protection so I was pretty clued in already to international adoption and its myriad of pitfalls and potential problems. Spent a lot of time focusing on how to ensure an "ethical" adoption process in the country we adopted from. After our daughter came home I began to recognize her losses in a much more tangible way (if you are not an adoptee you can read about these things all you want, but it is impossible to truly understand them or internalize them - the closest an AP can get is to begin to empathize with your adopted child. That is where I find myself.) We are searching for her birth family and getting very involved in figuring out how to be much more intentional with her, with her homeland, with her family of origin. Trying to figure out how to be more intentional also in our parenting. So this has brought us to considering a second adoption (domestic.) We do not want our daughter to be the only (only adopted, only brown-skinned, only only only) in our family. (We don't have bio kids.)
ReplyDeleteWe have never been one of the hoard. We don't buy the t-shirts if you know what I mean. But I am hearing Teri say in the post above that until adoption is reformed it is just bad. All bad? I guess I'm wondering, for those here who are both adult adoptees and at the same time adoptive parents - how do you merge the two? How do you best mitigate the very losses you have experienced for your adopted children? Do you think adoption CAN be done well and right on the front end? If so, what are the specific outline of steps you'd recommend? How can a domestic adoption (which seems so dependent on the agency) of a newborn infant be done in a way that guarantees a family is being provided for a child in need? Or is the feeling here that there are no domestic infants in need and that family preservation is always a possibility with enough inputs? Sorry if all of this is redundant. Maybe it has been covered in archived posts. Any thoughts are welcome. Honestly. And apologies up front if anything I've said or will say sounds ignorant. I'm open to learning.
Thanks, Trish :-)
ReplyDeleteEvery time you make a comment here, or especially at Lost Daughters, I always think "I wish she had a blog so I could read more." The stuff you have shared has been awesome. I would love reading your blog if you had one.
Trish - I read your comment after I left my last comment. That was so helpful. I know nothing yet about domestic adoption and am in the learning stage to determine if it is something we even will or should pursue. Taking into consideration the support of the agency towards parents and how many first parents choose to keep their children is very important. I appreciate that suggestion/feedback.
ReplyDeleteAs for the issue of bio siblings - I agree. I might have naively still chosen to adopt after having bio children (if that were a possiblity) but now that I am parenting one amazing little girl I can see so clearly what a bad idea that would have been for her. She may stay an only child. Or we may choose to adopt again as I mentioned in my comment above. But pursuing fertility treatment and making her the 'different' one is not an option. I love her too much to do that to her and I don't think that would be fair. That being said, I'm not sure I'm in a place to pass judgement on the topic as a whole regarding siblings in every circumstance. When the option is either being raised in an orphanage/group home or being raised in a less than perfect situation with a family, I would probably lean towards family in most situations.
I agree that not enough emphasis or discussion is had around that topic and I appreciate it being proposed for conversation.
:) Trust me, you'd quickly tire of my rambling.
ReplyDeleteUs. We. She.
ReplyDeleteI agree, I do not think all adoptive parents feel that adoption is about getting a child for parents instead of getting parents for a child. I don't think Terri as an AP feels that way about it personally (with that said, I'll stop speculating about how Terri feels on this issue and let her share it herself lol). But adoption, in-general, has turned into a sort of system that largely views its own purpose this way. The wording (I'm paraphrasing here) "finding children for parents instead of finding parents for children" actually comes from a statement in the U.N.'s "Rights of the Child." Enough people out there (and I'm not saying it's APs or all APs) not having the right mindset in adoption is what has made it less child-centered than it really ought to be.
I do think that loss is a common ground for empathy between adoptees and some adoptive parents (statistics indicate that about 80% adopted because of issues with fertility). It's part of the premise of the book "Shared Fate," which is based on the research and theory of its author, an Adoptive Father of four children. It is a sensitive topic for many adoptees, especially those who were made to feel (or felt on their own) that they were making up for losses caused by infertility. It was a big reason why I didn't talk a whole lot about my first family growing up because I didn't want to remind my mom, whom I love and adore, that she couldn't have kids. People may think I don't understand infertility issues and to a certain extent, I don't. I do not know what it is like not to ever be able to be pregnant or birth children. However, there was one point in my life where I believed I never would be able to and it was very hard. I was diagnosed with and treated for PCOS. Understanding infertility, let alone experiencing like I did, is far more significant for adoptees than people may think.
I can't answer your question as an AP as I am not one but as an Adoption Reform activist I can tell you that part of why I advocate for reform is to answer the very same question that you posed. The lack of transparency in adoption is still a huge problem. What reunions have done for many people I know is point out the fact that the stories of their origins that their APs were told by adoption facilitators were not in fact true. Myself as an example: my first mother surrendered me to adoption for various reasons. It wasn't something she really wanted but she was told that she would see me again some day and that if I wanted, I could reach out to her when I was growing up. She would just have to be patient and wait for my call. On the other end, the agency was telling my APs that my mother, who was a rape victim, just wanted to "move on with her life and forget." I was "unwanted." When I went to reunite, they neglected to tell me that my first mom had made it clear at surrender and throughout the years contacting the agency that my files were to be given to me and she was never to be a secret to me. They neglected this fact to the point that they refused me her name but offered their several-hundred-dollar services to access their records on my behalf and facilitate a reunion for me because "names were simply not exchanged at the time of your adoption." It was total BS.
I cannot explain to you the emotion I felt right through the phone as my a-mom responded to finding out for the first time, 25 years after the fact, that my first mom had wanted me, that she had wanted to hear from us. It was completely disenfranchising and disempowering to her to have not been given the information and true story from the agency (and this is not some little agency no one has ever heard of mind you. Its a big one). None of this was my APs fault by any means. But it was devestating to my mother to find out that her daughter's mother had suffered in silence and pain for two and a half decades and there was nothing she could do about it.
(cont.)
ReplyDeleteI believe in transparency in adoption because I believe it is the right thing to do. I believe in it because I do not want adoptees to have to grow up without access to the information they want, if they want it. I do not want any more first mothers to have to suffer in silence and pain. I do not want to have to listen to another a-mom gasp in response to what she feels is an indescribable injustice to herself and another mother, like my a-mom did, when she finds out something she should have been told but wasn't. All adoptees should be able to know their origins. Original parents should not be banned from knowing their sons and daughters are OK (instances of abuse etc are an exception). Adoptive parents have a right to know the circumstances under which their children were surrendered and to be able to verify that information. Truth is everyones' right. I want adoption policies to reflect that.
"I should also point out that there are tragic hordes of AP's who put little to no thought into these issues and they certainly don't represent me or the AP's that I choose to associate with."
ReplyDeleteI took Terri's post as saying the very same thing you did just here. She was talking about a group of APs that made comments (and linked to the page), not APs who are like her (she's an AP, remember, why would she "vilify" herself?) and if she wasn't describing you, she wasn't talking about you.
"Call it derailing if you will but if AP's are chased away from adoptee spaces the dialogue that could result in better understanding between the two groups (and better parenting by AP's) is quashed."
Here is another area of adoptee/adoptive parent disconnect. I feel like a lot of adoptees have been chased out of adoption-related spaces. I was explaining to an employee of a very large adoption-related website this very thing in email last year when she commented to me that adoptees do not come to their website. I asked her to look at the content on the website: mostly AP and PAP submissions, how-tos on adopting, and advertisements of people looking to adopt or services adoption facilitators wanted others to accept from them. Why would an adoptee feel welcome there? The irony of an adoption website that gives no sense of ambient belonging to adoptees, the very people adoption is supposed to be in the best interest of, is just incredible.
That's why my blog is dedicated to the adoptee perspective. When people say that I'm chasing APs away (and I think that's the first time I have ever been accused of that), I have no idea what that means. I get very few comments ever about APs being offended. In fact, I get emails from APs telling me I am too nice and that they are offended that it seems like I walk on eggshells around the feelings of APs! lol. So which is it?
The fact of the matter is, there are fewer adoption spaces out there that let adoptees know they belong than there are spaces where APs and PAPs clearly belong. If letting an a-mom/adoptee post her honest opinion on my blog about how she perceived an event in time that she referenced by linking to is "chasing APs away"....I really don't know what else to say.
"Call it derailing if you will but if AP's are chased away from adoptee spaces the dialogue that could result in better understanding between the two groups (and better parenting by AP's) is quashed."
ReplyDeleteSo lemme get this straight, if we don't play by your rules you will refuse to look into what it is like for adoptees?
So you don't read adoptee blogs because it is the right thing to do, parenting an adopted child but there is a fawning contingency.
It blows my mind as a parent that you are alright with this statement. What do we need to do to make sure you don't hit your kid? The hokey-pokey? Obviously the pleasure of being a decent parent isn't a motivating enough factor.
Joy
Amanda- I appreciate what you wrote in the comments. Thank you for putting so much time into your response... this is the kind of dialogue I am most interested in- grownups talking to grownups without attack and biting sarcasm.
ReplyDeleteLike Me.Us.She, I am actively searching for my child's family. I have been blown away by the lack of support I have received from many near and dear to my heart about this decision (not that I need their support to do this... it just surprised me). I am doing this because I too believe that every child has the right to know their origins. Furthermore, I think about my son's bmother on a daily basis and agonize over the possibilities of what she may (or may not be, I suppose) experiencing. If there is any chance of connecting my son and his bmother, then I want to make sure it can happen.
This time, these days of waiting to find out if any connections can be made, are ones that hold an armful (or two) of emotions. It consumes my mind and my heart, making it difficult to think of anything else.
I was reunited with my bfather at the age of 26. It changed my life in a way that nothing else could have. It healed me in a way that nothing else could have. That being said, I get it. I get it, I get it, I get it. But can I do without the sarcasm so many throw at aparents? YES.
Again, I appreciate your thoughts.
Rose
@ Rose,
ReplyDeleteI am confused, did you meet your natural father as an adult? What about your mother? Or did she raise you, or did you keep your name, and your culture?
Because unless those things are also true you can't even begin to accurately say, "I get it, I get it, I get it"
In fact unless all the other stigmas/denials removal of basic identity apply that is a very presumptuous statement.
Joy
Thank you for your comment, Rose.
ReplyDeleteThis blog has never, ever received so many hits in one day, in two years of blogging, as it did when I put this particular post up. I am talking THOUSANDS of hits.
ReplyDeleteIt bothers me that my blog does not get this much attention when it comes to sharing issues that could potentially help other adoptees. I wish this many people came here and spoke up when it's not an AP topic.
I'll point out that Terri's group membership as an AP keeps getting erased here in order for people to continue to single out adoptees as not liking adoptive parents. This is just another generalization thrown in the opposite direction. People are assuming about Terri (who IS an AP herself) and I that we automatically don't like adoptive parents. Is the fact that she an adoptee make it unacceptable for her to voice her observations on members of another group she also belongs to?
What is the appropriate and nice way for an adoptee to say that it is bothersome that there's only this much interest in an adoptee blog when it's an AP topic but not when it is a topic about adoptees, reform, or first mothers? Have you read my other entries? Have you read my "about me" page? PLEASE tell me it's true that people care this much about topics surrounding adoptees, and not just APs, because the activity on adoptee and rights related posts just does not reflect that.
There is a post up now about a Late Discovery Adoptee who found out at 42 he was adopted and his journey to make sure everyone has access to truth. He speaks about his original identity and information about the first FOUR years of his life being governed by a law that is over EIGHTY years old. This is such an injustice against adoptees. I am hoping today as many people that came here to defend APs they perceived as being attacked will go to my new post and show Jeff some support.
Comments on this post, unfortunately, are now closed.
Thank you.